SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Owen Han has a new book that poses one more urgent question in these critical times. What is a sandwich - just any old combo of ingredients between a couple of slices of bread? And must it always be bread, or are other building blocks permitted? Owen Han's cookbook is "Stacked: The Art Of The Perfect Sandwich," and Owen Han, who used to work in hospitals and became a sandwich sensation on TikTok, joins us from NPR West. Thank you so much for being with us.
OWEN HAN: Thanks for having me.
SIMON: You find the USDA definition of sandwich a bit shortsighted, don't you?
HAN: I do. So for me, a sandwich - I categorize it as if the ingredients are stackable and in between a carb source. Now, when I say carb source, that could be bread, of course, but then there's cookies, tortillas - really, just any sort of carbohydrate - and if it can be eaten with your hands, sometimes a fork and knife, then in my literal book, it is a sandwich.
SIMON: May I ask you about your background and your life?
HAN: Yeah. So I was born in Italy, spent my summers pretty much growing up in Nonna's kitchen. That's where I fell in love with food.
SIMON: Your nonna is an Italian...
HAN: Yes, Italian term for grandmother - best chef I know, very spoiled with just great food, high-quality ingredients. And then I grew up in the states in Florida, where my dad - who has Chinese heritage, so I'm half Italian, half Chinese - he was the cook of our family. So I would have Italian food in the summers and then, growing up throughout the year, blessed with great Chinese food, which, in my opinion, two of the best cuisines. And so that just really laid the foundation for me just absolutely loving food.
SIMON: Help us understand 2020, the year we associate with the pandemic. That really changed your life's direction, didn't it?
HAN: It really did. I was working at a hospital, delivering food to patients, thinking I was going to go on this whole path of dietetics, go back to school. Then, all of a sudden, I actually found out my dad passed away from COVID - very unexpected. And of course, going back to work in that environment was just not something I was really cut out for nor what I wanted to do. And what he always stressed to me and my siblings was to just really pursue our passion and kind of have the freedom to do whatever it is we want in this world. And at that time as well, my roommate introduced me to the app TikTok. And admittedly, at the time, I thought of it as purely an app for dancing teens. But I started posting these videos, and the first video that actually gained traction was my grandmother's shrimp toast recipe. So my Chinese grandmother, my dad actually gave me her cookbook the last time he saw me, and it really resonated with people all around the world. And then what really took off and made me want to do this full-time was my sandwich videos.
SIMON: Yeah. We made one of your recipes, and I'm not going to delay 'cause I'm a little hungry. Let me explain - our daughter, who works at a deli, made one of your recipes right in front of me now, turkey crunch. Could you tell us about it?
HAN: Oh, I love the turkey crunch. So this is my personal favorite turkey sandwich. I'm big on texture, and so I call it turkey crunch because it has a parmesan chip implemented in the sandwich, as well as...
SIMON: You call them fricos.
HAN: Fricos, yes. Fricos - I struggle saying crisps. So I just - I substitute it with parmesan chip, but, yeah, frico crisps. And it's layered with turkey, and I love the combination of Calabrian chili mayo - I'm a big spice fan - and then pesto is just an all-time sauce as well, whether it's pasta or for sandwiches. And then it's got red onion, a little pepperoncini. To me, it's just - it's the ultimate turkey sandwich.
SIMON: Wait a minute. So tell me about the crunch part. I mean, crunch is really something that is important to you, isn't it?
HAN: Big time. So, in my videos, I focus on ASMR. Do you know what that stands for?
SIMON: I don't believe so. No.
HAN: I don't either. It's a very - basically, it focuses on sounds. So whether it's sizzling of a steak...
(SOUNDBITE OF STEAK SIZZLING)
HAN: ...Melting of cheese...
(SOUNDBITE OF CHEESE MELTING)
HAN: ...Crunchy bread...
(SOUNDBITE OF BREAD CRUNCHING)
HAN: ...It's meant to catch people's attention, but also, if I just say, think of a warm, fresh baguette being squeezed and hearing the crunch, like, you can visualize that...
(SOUNDBITE OF BAGUETTE BEING SQUEEZED)
HAN: ...Just by the sound as well. And so that's something I focus on with my videos, but also in my recipes, I just love different textures when it comes to food, especially when it comes to sandwiches. I think I always opt for the toasted option. But when it comes to this turkey sandwich, the addition of chip, the parmesan crisp, that just comes from childhood. I feel like adding chips to a sandwich - it's just any way to upgrade a sandwich.
SIMON: Yeah. I agree. As a loyal Chicagoan, let me ask a question that I think has destroyed families. Chicago Italian beef - how wet?
HAN: Oh, I go for the double-dip. It better be dripping.
SIMON: All right. All right. You answered it forthrightly. Thank you for putting in a veggie burger.
HAN: Absolutely got to have a veggie burger recipe. What's crazy about that is sometimes it just makes me not even crave or want beef or a regular burger. I actually will make these and just stock freeze them. And then whenever I'm craving it, you just kind of pop it in the oven, and you got veggie burgers to go. But that took a lot of kind of R&D because the biggest thing with veggie burgers is getting a good sear on the patty and making sure it doesn't fall apart.
SIMON: Yeah.
HAN: You still want to mimic the texture of beef in the sense of kind of like a firm patty. And if you're just doing mixed vegetables, it's kind of hard to achieve that. But adding panko in there and then the quinoa...
SIMON: Panko, of course, are crumbs, and...
HAN: Exactly.
SIMON: ...Quinoa - yeah.
HAN: Giving it that texture you're looking for, where you can get a nice sear on it. And then the avocado crema, I think, is just - it makes that sandwich absolutely incredible. So I had to throw that in there as well, 'cause my mom is a vegetarian.
SIMON: Yeah. It looks great, and we'll be trying it. What do you think, Mr. Han, food that's interesting, comforting or fun can put into our lives?
HAN: For me, comfort food - I mean, it's everything. It can change someone's mood. Food is really - it's powerful. And to me, nothing screams comforting than a nice sandwich, something you can eat with your hands on the go. You make it as simple or as elevated as possible. And, I mean, I'm just a sucker for a good sandwich.
SIMON: Yeah. Owen Han's sandwich cookbook is called "Stacked." Thank you so much for being with us. Bon appetit.
HAN: Appreciate you having me. Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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